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tv   To Be Announced  CNN  March 14, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT

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missing malaysian airlines flight. we'll see you again at 10:00 p.m. eastern for another edition of 360. "piers morgan live" starts now. this is cnn breaking news. >> this is "piers morgan live" tonight, breaking news, strong indications of sabotage on the missing malaysia airlines flight. the "wall street journal" reporting the investigation of flight 370 may be turning fast into a criminal investigation
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and more than one person may be involved. manually changing the plane's course. malaysian military radar showed the plane climbing and diving erratically after its transponder went dead as the "new york times" first reported. is it a sign of a fight for control in the cockpit? we'll get right to our breaking news. dramatic breaking news. joining me now cnn's barbara starr at the pentagon, also "new york times" reporting matthew wald and john ostrow from the "wall street journal." john the "wall street journal" in the last few moments has broken this extraordinary development in this story which is that the plane may have been manually turned by at least one person quite deliberately and taken off course. tell me what you know. >> at this point what we've learned over the course of today is that the change in heading that was made to the 777 came after various systems were -- appeared to be deliberately turned off. and we do know from the folks that we have spoken with that are directly familiar with this investigation as it's unfolding
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now that a manual input to the aircraft was made, whether it was made through the auto pilot appears to be the most likely means based on satellite data transmissions that were received shortly after the input was made. >> and let me go to matthew wald, new york sometimes obviously reported that the jet made sharp changes in altitude and course. tell me about those and tell me about the significance of that and also that in relation to what the "wall street journal" is reporting. >> well, it might confirm, might contradict. if you have an airplane that's trimmed to fly at a certain altitude and it flies long enough, you will end up changing its center of gravity. it will burn off fuel. the tail will become lighter as you burn off the fuel. the wing tips will pitch up, down, up. fidelity of the malay
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radar is not clear it's not clear what's happened at this point. >> barbara, when we spoke last night you broke the news that you believed american officials were pretty convinced now that this plane had gone down into the indian ocean somewhere. putting together the new revelations we've heard about the trajectory of the plane, about the fact it may have been taken over by one or more people who deliberately tampered with the systems, what can you now tell me with all that also bringing in your information about the plane probably having crashed? >> reporter: piers, let me go through a couple of things tonight. u.s. official i've spoken to says as time goes on, as they have looked at all of this erratic flight data, the pings from the aircraft, the radar returns, the satellite data, all of it, as they look at the erratic path of this plane this official tells me it is becoming harder to write off the notion that a human hand was not involved in this in some fashion. this does not go to motive. it may have been the pilot or
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the crew trying to regain control of the plane in some fashion for some reason. it may have been something totally nefarious. it is leading them conclusion they have to consider there was serious human intervention in all of this. what we also know, the radar returns, dramatic changes in altitude, to underscore what my colleague was saying a moment ago, the malaysian radars may not have that much accuracy. the plane was flying a good distance. that reduces the accuracy. we do know the plane made a turn west into the indian ocean. and now with the malaysians, the u.s. has calculated two areas that it needs to go search. the plane, they believe based on their high tech analysis, either made a right turn into the indian ocean and went north into the bay of bengal or it made a
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left turn to the south. and there is this southern search box that they are also looking at. the indian navy and u.s. looking in the north, u.s. navy looking in the south. piers? >> barbara, tell me this. although they believe it is most probable that the plane has gone down into the indian ocean. they found no sign of any debris yet or sign of this plane. have they completely 100% ruled out the possibility that it could simply have landed somewhere? >> reporter: nothing is ruled out in this case 100 percent at this point. i mean, the world has been watching this mystery for a week now. but they are looking based on their calculations that the indian ocean is the place to go. these two areas are the place to look. there are land masses out there. but as so many aviation experts have said on our air, if you're going to land a 777 somewhere, you are going to need expertise and thousands of feet of runway. if it had crashed into land it's
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getting a little difficult to sort of firmly believe that there would not be some notice of it, some surveillance overhead that would not have noticed a crash. all this adds up plus mainly the technical data they believe it went into the ocean. but nothing is certain, piers. >> okay. matthew wald, when people say has this kind of thing happened before, well, actually quite recently, yes. we saw a diverted boeing 767 which was going from ethiopia to rome, and the pilot suddenly decided to take it off to switzerland with 164 passengers on board. he landed it safely. so if you assume expertise here was needed of maybe pilot-standard caliber, is it beyond the realms of fantasy that the pilot or copilot or possibly both of them have done exactly what this ethiopian pilot did, taken the plane off for whatever nefarious reasons it may be? >> yes, it's within the realm of possibility.
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without some ground-based nav aid this would be difficult to do. two discouraging problems here. one of them is, if eventually they recover the cockpit voice recorder it may be of no use whatsoever. it's a two-hour loop. what you want to know is what was happening when the plane made that left turn and left its assigned flight path. that's going to be long gone because it will be erased over by subsequent conversation if there was any. that's problem number one. problem number two is, if you eventually find floating wreckage, it's been in the water for a week. if it's moving at 2 knots it's going to be hundreds of miles from where it started. you've got to go back and back calculate where to look on the ocean floor. so this gets harder and harder. in addition, the pingers on the black boxes are supposed to last 30 days give or take. seven of those days are gone. confidence that we're going to figure out precisely what happen here is declining. >> so matthew wald, fascinating
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analysis there. but what is your gut feeling with a lot of expertise in your locker about what you think is probably happened here? >> we have increasingly detailed theories based on very little information. it's very hard to say. it is easy to reconcile the changes in altitude given the lack of fidelity of the ra radar. the malaysians won't say how good their radar is. that's a defense secret. it's harder to reconcile the changes in direction. people will postulate, maybe there were lithium batteries on board, maybe they had a fire, progressive electrical failure. we just don't have the information we need. >> okay. john ostrow, that is certainly true. if we had all the information we needed we'd all know what happened. clearly the reporting you've done and the "new york times" and barbara starr, all excellent reporting, all coming at it from slightly different angles. if you put it all together, you put the sum of all parts
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together, what is your feeling about what we are looking at here? >> certainly based on the indications we've gotten thus far, across all the reporting that has taken place over the last week, everything points in the direction toward something changed the course of that airplane and likely someone. and someone who had expert knowledge of the aircraft systems and knew exactly how to steer a 777 at altitude. and that's not a skill that really is easy to come by. and in this particular case, certainly indicates that there was human intervention. and as we look at the span of it, that there was something that took place. i mean, i think we can definitively say that there was a human factor that took place here. and everything points to that. so as you take the sum of all its parts, it's really clear this investigation is certainly veering rapidly toward some kind of criminal element and criminal investigation rather than an
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aircraft safety investigation related to some potential mechanical failure. but again nothing is ruled out. nor has a criminal investigation been declared. but certainly as we see it right now everything points in that direction. >> i want to bring in david. stay with me panel. bring in author of "why planes crash." david we spoke yesterday about this and you had fascinating analysis about what you thought had happened. has your view of what may have happened changed as a result of all the reporting that's come in late today? >> no, piers. what's in here in this "wall street journal" report i fully support. i have been talking with them along the way as well. the theories and the ideas that we've had, i've done investigation with 777 captains that i just got off the phone with again to validate and help me understand that. but what i want to get is where there's an apple, i want to call it an apple. so the apple that i see right now is that someone did intentionally i support exactly what "wall street journal" is
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saying. someone did turn that aircraft. it was by hand. i suspect by the auto pilot because the navigation systems are not connected to the communication systems that have been disabled. so i'm very convinced that someone took this aircraft, took it off course and flew it again with the altitude information from the "wall street journal," i don't put a lot of credibility into that because i just don't believe in primary radar that much. so the fact that it went both directions, yes. >> let me jump in. i am not an expert here nor are most of the people watching this. so let's presume that theory is correct, that somebody, a copilot, a pilot, somebody else possibly, has taken control of this plane. they've got to be highly skilled to do what they do. how did they then keep this plane flying for four, possibly five hours, possibly even longer without any detection? just explain to me how that physically can happen. >> pilots have been flying map of the earth for years, as soon as radar came out they figured out they could fly at low
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altitudes and not be picked up by primary radar. that's not a surprise. it's been around for years. so that doesn't surprise me in the least. the range of the aircraft changes dramatically at those low altitudes, though, so you don't have as much range as you did before. but fact is that that aircraft, i've got credible evidence that aircraft was at those altitudes. i'm going to accept that. i'm going to call that an apple. look at that apple and that's what it is. i can't see it's anything else. >> talking apples, if i had an iphone, pretty certain if i dropped it in new york then i could probably have it found by somebody in europe. and what people again if you're watching this all week will say how is it in the modern ages with all the incredible technology we have that the world's greatest aviation experts have no apparent clue really where this plane is? >> you have to understand the investigative process in the first place. they're trying to keep the information here. they want to keep it here. and that's so they can come up with the credible evidence. at some point it has to come
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out. now with my experience in doing investigations with what i've experienced in the past, what surprises me at this point is the thought that let's say it did come over. what i kept questioning is, how did they get into the cockpit? if this is true how did they get into the cockpit? how did they take over the aircraft? how did they disable everything? i've got a simple answer for that. wall street even touched on it as well. there's access to the e and e equipment bay. in that e and e equipment bay are the circuit breakers for the transponders, the circuit breakers for the acars, and everything else has been turned off on that aircraft is accessible from the cabin through an access door. now, getting to that access door is a very simple thing. it's right behind the cockpit door. it's right next to the entrance door of this aircraft. how this has been overlooked as a security issue i can't even imagine. we spent years and years making sure that cockpit was secure. and now there's access critical
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systems of taircraft from underneath the airplane? unfathomable to me. >> unfathomable. try to put some fathom into it for me. >> this airplane was flying over the ocean. radar is only good for about 200 miles from shore. so you don't have to fly at low altitude to be undetected once out get beyond the range of radar. as we discovered on 9/11 in this country and certainly in places like malaysia and thailand, there are not fighter planes waiting to scramble to chase unidentified aircraft. it just doesn't work that way. the ocean is very large, very dark and very easy to disappear into. >> okay. let me ask this of john ostrow. if you're on a plane and you know it's suddenly diverting off course and you're one of those passengers, again with the new technology everyone's got some kind of gadget on them. could not one of them have made any kind of e-mail, text message, bbm, whatever it may have been, to anybody else outside that plane to notify them there was a problem?
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and if they didn't collectively, what does that tell us about what may have happened to them in the cabin? >> well, let's talk about what we know factually at this point. air mobile which provided a cell system for one of malaysian's 777s said this particular aircraft was not fitted with such a system the certainly at altitude there would have been no ability for passengers to see either where they were or send a message. and in addition to the type of controls that a pilot has, one that they have access to right above their heads is one that provides power to the in-flight entertainment system. that in-flight entertainment system provides a moving map in a lot of cases on the 777, and also the 777s on malaysia early on, i can't say that i know if this particular 777 still had an air phone system, but if the seat had been disabled as far as the power going to it they
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wouldn't have been able to communicate. and that is another thing that is available on the 777 as far as the types of controls. >> let me stop you there. please all stay with me. i'll take a short break. closer perhaps to some answers at least to what happened to flight 370. when we come back i'll ask top terror es experts and a pilot what they make of all this breaking news. yea. try alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heart burn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. alka-seltzer fruit chews. enjoy the relief!
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the mystery of flight 370 is a week old now. we may have a little bit more of an idea tonight of what happened. joining me now cnn national security an lit david better again, david souci author of "why planes crash." and matthew wald and john ostrow. welcome to all of you. couldn't get a more expert group of people to discuss all of this. david souci, i want to go back to you to clarify something you said before we broke there. you seemed to suggest that there is a way if you're in the main cabin, not the cockpit, to basically power down things like the transponder and so on. just clarify exactly what you said. >> what it is there's a hatch that goes down into the equipmentv2ls area which is the avionics bay or e and e is what it's referred to as. with a special screw driver what it takes you can open the hatch, crawl down into this area, and from inside of there is where
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all the circuit breakers are for all of the equipment that we've been talk about that's turned off and even more could be turned off from down there. so that's the access. that's how this -- finally have an answer in my head as to why and how this could have occurred. why it occurred i don't know but i canhoqrñ tell you how. >> mark wise, that's a riveting new piece of information which i haven't heard before. and it also opens up the possibility that although the finger of suspicion this plane has been taken off course deliberately rests at the moment with perhaps the pilot or copilot, this could have actually been done by somebody in the main cabin, i.e. one of the passengers or indeed one of the rest of the crew. >> well, absolutely. we certainly don't know at this point. and david's correct. you'd have to have access from that. it's really near the forward galliga galley. you have to lift the carpet, use
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a special tool to undo the screws. then a set of special steps that will access you to the,and e department. from there you can disable all the instruments we've been talking about before. at the same time somebody, a cohort to be in the cockpit able to fly an airplane. so at least in theory, you're dealing with more than one person. >> so let me ask you this then. if you are implying then you need to have someone with pilot experience, and we make an assumption that either the pilot or copilot, both of whom have large question marks as we've established this week about their own potential involvement in this in the sense that the copilot we know had already got a habit of inviting passengers, random people to come and spend entire flights in the cockpit with him, posing for pictures and smoking and so on. we know that from somebody i interviewed earlier in the week. we also know the main pilot had an entire flight simulator in his house.
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now, both of these things may not mean they had any involvement, or that's they may do. but if you assume there was somebody else involved, would you say there would have been a struggle in the cockpit? is that your guess about what may have happened? and if so again, why would none of this show up, with anybody alerting anybody outside of this plane? >> well, certainly that's one of the questions. but yes, i do think somebody got into the cockpit. now, whether that was one of the crew members, whether it was an invited guest or awn n uninvite guest. again could have been a flight attendant for all we know that could have had some flying experience. i certainly believe because of the erratic behavior, changes of altitude, that that to me certainly suggesti suggests there was a fight for controls in the cockpit. turning to different headings, that was a very deliberate act that did not necessarily have to
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engage in a fight. >> okay. let me go to matthew wald. we're looking at pictures there which are this flight simulator that the pilot used. this is his that he had in his house. what is the significance of this? i understand it's not unprecedented that some pilots do indeed have simulators at home. but should we read anything more sinister into this? >> it means he likes his work. i should say that the people whom the copilot invited into the cockpit were not random. they were mostly pretty girls. that's not unheard of. pilots say that over water flights tend to get boring. i'm not sure what i can read into that. and i'm not sure we should be ready to slander the dead. there may be time to do it later but i'm not sure this is the time. >> but on that particular point -- and listen i accept what you say about the copilot inviting girls. thousand w though i was surprised you can do that anymore. i remember kids going into
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cockpits years ago. certainly post 9/11 i was amazed you could still do that and adults would go in and out. but let's move on to this pilot and his flight simulator. is that in your experience, matthew wald, common, unusual, strange? >> i know that -- i don't know. i know that there are a lot of pilots who live and breathe airplanes, and in fact become really attached to one model of airplane. right after twa 800, i met a man who had been a captain and reached the mandatory retirement age of 60 which it then was and went back to work as a flight engineer on a 747 just because he loved the plane so much. he bounced himself down two steps because his life was flying these airplanes. there are people like that out there. >> okay. peter bergen, let's turn to national security here. if we make an assumption and all the indications are beginning to point this way that this plane was taken over by nefarious
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forces of some kind, we don't know who they were, how many they were or what their purpose was, let's theorize about what their intentions could have been. >> well, i think terrorism is kind of a remote possibility right now. we haven't had an authentic claim for this kind of attack from any group that is known. there has been one but it didn't seem like a serious claim. the two groups that might be inclined to do something like this i don't think have the motive. one would be the local al qaeda affiliate. why would they attack a malaysian airline flight rather than a western one? similar with the chinese wigears haven't shown an ability to really operate outside china. and these are fundamentalist muslims. they are unlikely to attack a country like malaysia. so you're left with perhaps idiosyncratic motives. >> what about this theory? what about this theory? let me throw one out there which
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may sound utterly ridiculous but so do most theories when no one has a clue what's happened. what about the theory let was stolen to order a $37 million brand-new plane, virtually, stolen to order, taken off, landed and you've got 150 odd chinese people on board this plane and that somebody, whoever they may be, may want to hold those people to ransom from the chinese. is something like that completely ridiculous? can be ruled out? or is there a possibility that that is what's happened? >> i think that's pretty remote. i mean, i would go with the idea of idiosyncratic motive. we saw for instance in 2006 the turkish airlines was a guy got in the cockpit, he said he had a bomb. he diverted the plane to italy. he had some sort of hair-brained plan to meet with the pope. he was arrested. you could imagine somebody with idiosyncratic motives. we've also seen cases of asylum. you mentioned earlier in the program of a pilot diverting for asylum reasons.
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breaking news tonight, the "wall street journal" indicates there are strong indications of sabotage aboard flight 370. still many unanswered questions. i'm back with my panel. sort of go to john ostrow from the "wall street journal." rupert murdoch your boss tweeted "world seems transfixed by flight 370's disappearance." can you rule that out? i know you can't rule out anything. but is it beyond the realms of reality this plane has simply been taken off perhaps to somewhere like pakistan and has just been hidden for whatever reason? >> well, we don't know. at this point we're just going by the reporting that we're doing and the factual information that we can gather and put together in a way that provide a bit of context for
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understanding the situation. and also what may have unfolded here. to say it went somewhere specific is certainly within a realm of possibility, but there are again a number of things that are within a realm of possibilities. there's been an enormous amount of speculation this week. what i found in my reporting along with andy pastor is that this story has evolved so quickly and so suddenly that one conception we may have had in one day about our expectation about what has unfolded here has been transformed considerably. so i think in a lot of respects there's a lot of patience that needs to be had here in terms of watching the evidence that is real come out as it does. >> filip balm, i also believe it it's not unhelpful to just throw out as many theories as is humanly possible. because one of them is going to be right. what do you make of all the developments in the last 24 hours? and where is your head now going in terms of your theory for what may have happened?
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>> i don't think i've really changed my opinion since day one. there are as you say so many different possible scenarios out there. right from the beginning we suspected that there was negative intent either by a crew member or by a passenger on board that aircraft. and as mysterious and spectacular as this story is in many respects, if you go back to 1976, go back to that famous hijacking of the air france jet to antebbe. and how did the israelis carry out that rescue attempt by flying undetected from israel to uganda in the middle of the night, flying aircraft that had to be refuelled, flying above a british airways aircraft to avoid radar dedcar dekz /* /- -
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detection and landing in antebbe in the middle of the night. i'm concerned about the whole issue of integrity of the cockpit. as much as you can keep the bad guys out of the flight deck, you can also keep the good guys out of the flight deck if you've got the wrong person in the cockpit you're in a really serious situation because nobody else can get in. >> right. let me go back to peter bergen. one of the reasons i've got one of the passengers who survived this. but the hijacking on the ethiopian airlines plane which happened earlier this year, there are parallels here. because the first officer left the cockpit to use the restroom, and then the copilot allegedly locked the security door and headed off to switzerland. that could have happened here, couldn't it? i suppose again i'm going to put you on the spot to just throw out a few ideas here. if it wasn't a traditional
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terrorism organization like al qaeda, who else and for what reason would perhaps want to control a pilot to do that if it wasn't just the pilot wanted to commit suicide or to seek asylum? >> i don't know the answer to that, piers. i mean, that's why i come back to sort of idiosyncratic motivations can sometimes come into play. before 9/11 we saw a lot of that in the united states before the reinforced cockpit door. we saw fed-ex plane which was somebody tried to get into the cockpit in '94. we saw a southwest airlines flight in 2000. we saw alaska airlines flight where a guy got in the cockpit. this is not as uncommon as some people might think where people who are base you cannily kind of crazy for one reason or another try to take control. arguing against that, of course, the person who had the sophistication to turn off the transponder and all the other things that happened isn't crazy. >> okay. mark wise, you're a form pilot, american airlines, flew many
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many flights. is it possible that somebody could have commandeered this plane and got as far as somewhere like pakistan as some people are suggesting? >> absolutely. there was enough fuel on the airplane to do that. whether without -- you would think that if that airplane had been over a land mass, someone's radar would have been able to pick that up. and it certainly at this point, political pressures alone, i would think, would have determined that the pakistani government or another government would have determined that the radar tapes should be shown to everybody on board. >> if you know what you're doing, if you know what you're doing and you're a very very smart pilot with a lot of experience, could you if you had planned it properly perhaps using simulators, who knows, could you have avoided detection by radars if you knew where they were at their most intense? >> well, i think you'd be -- even with the transponder turned off, there'd still be a radar pinging. you wouldn't know who you are.
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you wouldn't have the identity that you'd have with your secondary radar on the aircraft. your primary transponder. but i think what you're really asking is, is it possible for somebody with the knowledge with some level of expertise in flying the airplane, could they have landed that airplane somewhere in that area? again, that airplane you have to have a lot of training to fly that airplane safely. you'd have to have the right runway. you'd have to have the navigation facilities on the ground to accommodate that aircraft. there would be more planning involved than i think just throwing something out and0+m/w saying this is a real possibility. i don't know that that really exists. >> okay. listen, thank you all to my panel. it's been fascinating views from there a lot of experts. thank you all very much indeed. coming up one of the leading theories of what happened to flight 370, a hijacking.
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i'll talk to a man who survived a terrifying hijacking, ethiopia to rome diverted to switzerland. this survivor will talk to me after the break. ♪ ♪ abe! get in! punch it! [ male announcer ] let quicken loans help you save your money with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze. thanks, "g."
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breaking news this morning, an ethiopian airlines jet headed for rome hijacked by the flight's copilot. >> how an airline pilot hijacked his own flight. >> swiss police are trying to
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unscramble a bizarre hijacking attempt. >> one of many theories that the fate of flight 370 is hijacking. less than a month ago an ethiopian airlines flight on the way to italy was hijacked by its own copilot and flew to switzerland where the copilot was seeking asylum. joining me is a man who was on that plane. francesco thank you for joining me. you're via skype. obviously when you heard about this missing plane i guess your mind went straight back to what happened to you. tell me about the first moment you realized that your plane had been hijacked. >> well, i don't know really what to say. i mean, i realized it, it wasn't a clear moment because a test,
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simulated afterwards. then i visited with someone who was an off duty pilot aboard a plane trying to get into the cockpit. so i sort of understood something was wrong. and it was kind of presented to me as this happened. and there was not much you can do. >> obviously very terrifying, though, for you and all the passengers. you must have been hugely relieved when the plane landed. do you think that something similar may have happened here from the experience that you went through? >> i'm sorry. i don't know. as you said, when i kind of read of this flight, i basically thought i'm glad i wasn't on it. >> did you feel, francesco, in the incident that you went through, did you fear for your life when you realized the plane
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had been taken over? >> yes. we were a few people that realized that, and i think all of us had to some extent fear. yes. what could happen. >> it obviously many people are now concerned about flight safety going forward. you went through what you went through last month. this has now happened. do you think that more should be done to deal with this kind of situatio situation? >> i don't know. i don't know how difficult it is. it's something that i was asked and was thinking on. and i frankly don't know what could be done more to prevent sort of people, in my case people that seemed to go crazy. >> wells francesco, thank you for joining me. i know it was a very traumatic thing you went through.
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i appreciate you taking the time to speak to me tonight. when we come back i want to talk about the crew of flight 370 an what we know of them. new images believed to be the pilot's in-flight home simulator after the break. ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone.
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new images tonight believed to be of the pilot's inhome simulator. joining me now patrick skinner, a former air marshal and ceo of new age security solutions, former director of security. welcome to both of you. patrick skinner, you've been an air marshal, former cia counterterrorism air marshal. tell me what your instinct tells you what has happened here, because the whole world appears to be completely gripped and baffled. >> it's unprecedented.
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usually in a hijacking, there's a claim of responsibility. and now seven days later we're trying to figure out what happened. it's unprecedented. it's unlike any other hijacking, if that's what it is. >> you've dealt with some high security situations in your clear. have you ever encountered anything quite like this before? >> well, not the -- quite like this, but we had an incident. sometimes the -- in the -- in late 2001, when a russian aircraft took off and disappeared from the screens over the black sea. it took about ten hours to realize that it was actually shot out of the sky by a russian military missile by mistake during an exercise that the
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russian navy held in the black sea. but i think that the lesson that we drew at the time was the importance of preparedness for this type of scenarios. i can say that within a very short period of time that the fact that the aircraft disappeared became known, we managed to accumulate all or most of the relevant information about the passengers, about the aircraft while it was hosted at the airport, about the cargo that went on board. and because as you may know, at the airport, we rely heavily on speaking to passengers and what some people call profiling. we had a lot of information
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about who was on that flight, and we were very comfortable at a relatively early stage that there was nobody on that flight that could have been defined as suspicious enough to carry out such an act. >> okay. patrick skinner, if you were in the cia now investigating, this would you be pretty critical of the way the malaysian government and the malaysian airlines have been behaving or would you accept they've never been through anything like this and they are novices when dealing with this kind of a thing? >> i think on a public level, there's probably some frustration. but i imagine on an intelligence liaison level they're sharing as much as they can. they have a huge interest in solving this, and my old employer would be working close
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with them to scrub the passenger list with them, and that's probably the first thing they did is go through that passenger list to make sure. no country is really prepared for, this and malaysia is relatively poor and this is a tragedy that hasn't happened in a decade anywhere, let alone in a southeast asian country ill-prepared for it. so if i was still in liaison, i would be very understanding. >> raffi ron, of all the theories that people have put out there which may have happened, which to you sound the most potentially credible? >> i think at this point in time, the level of information that we have, we cannot avoid the prioritizing the possibility that there was a human intervention here. the fact that the flight, that the aircraft kept flying indicates there must have been somebody out there, and the way the scenario has rolled out,
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there was one detail that drew my attention, and that is -- it was mentioned that shortly before the event started rolling, somebody in the cockpit said good night. for me that might have been an indication that somebody was going to leave the cockpit, possibly one of the pilots and that involves opening the door of the cockpit, which allows the opportunity for somebody to rush in, and that's exactly the point where all the events started to go wrong, turning off the transponders and doing all the kind of things that, according to the experts, can be done almost only by human intervention. >> patrick skinner, that's a really good point. if you look at that chronology of what hand, that simple good night could well have precipitated opening the cockpit door and everything that followed it. >> yes, it could be. or it could be the pilots
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themselves were involved in what transpired afterwards. the problem with the armored cockpit doors, once it's shut it's shut and you're not getting in, if you want to help save the plane or you want to take it over. and so it's -- it would be hard to imagine 239 people sitting there while people are going into the cockpit. 13 years after 9/11, people are still paying attention to that. so it could be they opened the plane, that it would quickly fall apart. >> i've got to leave it there. thank you both very much for joining me. we'll be right back. sportier. d i said i g annnd done. ok maxwell, just need to ah contact your insurance company with the vin number. oh, i just did it. with my geico app. vin # is up to the loaded. ok well then jerry here will take you through all of the features then. why don't weeeeeeeeeeee go out to the car. ok, i'll just be outside...
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that ice all for us tonight. anderson cooper starts right now. good evening. it is 10:00 here on the east coast of the united states. 10:00 a.m. in malaysia. for the first time in weeks since flight 370 vanished, there are new developments that could point to some answers, including one item strongly suggesting that investigators are now focusing sharply on foul play. we're talking about three new pieces of information about what may have happened to the 777 after air traffic controllers lost contact with signals from its radar transponder. barbara starr reporting on a classified analysis suggesting the airlinerad


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